Roleplaying
2004 Archive
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Seminars
| When: | 8 November 2004 |
| Who: | Ellen, Megumi |
| What: | Ellen and Megumi discuss time transcendence and transhumanism. |
The University
The campus of the University of Texas at Austin stretches over several square miles. The most striking area of the campus is the clock tower, which looms over the rest of the campus and glows depending on when the school wins a victory in something it considers important. The West Mall is also another large part of the campus, housing the school's Union and having an open grassed area in front of it with enough trees to give it suitable shading.
The southwest corner of the campus is where the Harry Ransom Center is. A massive library and archive area that has several rare books and artifacts that make it of special interest to Yves. Finally, the last place of major interest is a Tokamak reactor buried deep beneath the Math and Sciences Building; the reactor a source of constant interest by both servitors of Jean and Vapula.
Megumi sits in the University Library reading some sonnets in the COMPLETE WORKS OF SHAKESPEARE. The COMPLETE WORKS OF SHAKESPEARE is a very large book. And heavy. You could kill someone with The Complete Works of Shakespeare if you hit them hard enough. She, however, is not bored. She seems to be enjoying it, even whispering the verse as she makes her way down each line. She speaks quietly, so as to not disturb the other students.
Ellen comes along, with a pile of books in her arms. They're mainly old, dusty ones that have been lying in the stacks for a while -- translations of ancient works of philosophy. She moves to a table near Megumi, sliding into a seat and setting the books on the table. As she lays them out, she glances at each title furtively, with what might be described as a covetous, even obsessive look. But it is only for a moment. Quietly, she folds one book open and smooths out the pages.
Megumi reads through the Shakespeare joyously, whispering something sexy in a Shakespearian way before... ... glance to Ellen ... glance to book ... glance to Ellen ... glance to book. She is about to ignore Ellen when curiousity overwhelms her and she tries to get a good look at the page Ellen is on, trying to see what she's reading! Roar!
It's a translation of some ancient Egyptian text... the Egyptian Book of the Dead, it looks like. Ellen is studying the text closely, running her finger lightly down the column of print. In a moment, however, she seems to sense someone's eyes upon her. Or, maybe she just senses that the whispering she's been hearing nearby has stopped. She turns her head slightly to look, with a mildly quizzical glance at Megumi.
Megumi continues reading the translation. She doesn't seem to notice anybody looking at her at all. Perhaps she got engrossed in the translation and is too busy reading it to watch out for being noticed! She even hmmms at it as she reads. "Hmmm..."
Ellen lifts an eyebrow mildly at the teenager reading over her shoulder. Yet, she gives a not-unfriendly, and slightly-amused smile. "See anything interesting?" she asks softly, her voice low and conspiratorial, as if the book is an amusing secret she is sharing with Megumi.
Megumi says, "Nnn.....", in reply. "Nn.", she adds before pulling away. She looks Ellen over, "Mm.", she tilts her head, "Hmm..I find my book more interesting, but that might just be a matter of taste. I know at least one person who would call Shakespeare a 'hack', after all.", the tone of her voice reflects her opinion of that 'person'. Namely: No respect at all.
Ellen glances at the Shakespeare for a moment, then back to Megumi, and smiles. "Oh, I imagine Shakespeare is more exciting. More dramatic, at least." She smiles again, "The people of Shakespeare's own age considered his plays common entertainment, but time has ripened their flavor, has it not?"
"Like fine wine," Megumi jokes with an easy smile, "The people of the time considered it common entertainment, for sure, but he was still considered the best by the end of his time. He -did- have a hard beginning though, but that's to be expected from a playwright I suppose.", she hesitates, "Archeology Major?"
Ellen shakes her head, "Philosophy. And I completed my degree a year and a half ago. But I am working on some writing, you see." She smiles, and gestures to the jumble of notebooks, pens and stuff stuffed in her bookbag. "What about you, Miss? Drama?" she smiles. "Or English Lit?"
Megumi says, "Oh, so you're -not- going back to College or anything? Well, I shouldn't be surprised, I see -all sorts- of people hanging around the University, and it's Library, whether they actually take classes here or not.", she leans back, "Actually, I'm still in Highschool, I just take a couple literature courses here. No declared Major yet."
Ellen smiles, "Oh, I /might/ be taking some classes here, actually. I have many interests. But, I just arrived in town recently, so I won't be able to start til next term." She looks at Megumi curiously. "Ahh, high school? And already a fan of the Bard." She smiles again.
Megumi says, "On Archeology?", with a smile, "But of course, they start forcing you into reading the stuff in middle school, unless you go to a crappy middle school, so I might as well be a fan of it by -now-. Of course, you learn more each reading, though some..hehe..-plebians- don't seem to get that.", she found her own joke amusing. What a gal! "Have you met one of the caretakers of the Library here? He goes by 'Remy'."
"Actually, I plan to be taking some language courses first," Ellen smiles. "Latin, and perhaps Greek. I'd like to be able to read the ancient philosophers in their original languages -- there are so many more nuances that way." She gestures at the book and chuckles, "Of course, it's unlikely that they'll have a course in ancient Egyptian." She arches an eyebrow delicately, chuckling at Megumi's remark, "I imagine today's plebians are less appreciative of verse plays than those of Shakespeare's day. And, no, I have not met any 'Remy'. I haven't been here very long, I'm afraid."
Megumi says, "You should learn Japanese," she waves a hand, "Japanese is an excellent language.", she scowls for a moment, "That's 'cause they got stupider than peasants. That's not my fault.", she drums her fingers on the table thoughtfully, nad then closes the book, turning a bit more to face Ellen, "Remy is a very honest man, you'll like him.", she smiles with teeth.
"Mm," Ellen looks thoughtful, stroking her lip. "Japanese would be quite useful for studying Buddhist philosophy. However, my current interests lie more with the Western tradition." She lifts her eyebrows mildly as Megumi scowls at her peers' lack of cultivation, then smiles again. "Ah, I do admire honesty. Is he a friend of yours?"
Megumi says, "You know, if you just know Western Tradition, you miss half of the tradition. There's West and then East, after all.", she shrugs her shoulders, "I would like to think so, but he might sort of be the sort who is thinking of things beyond friendship most of the time and, well, he doesn't seem to dislike me."
"Oh, I am sure that is so," Ellen nods, "but one can only study so much at a time." She smiles, "Right now I am working on a project called 'Ancient Wisdom, Postmodern Views,' in which I analyze the ancient roots of Western philosophy in light of recent concepts." She then mms, "Things beyond friendship? Do you mean that he is absorbed in his academic work?" She smiles quaintly.
Megumi says, "Not quite, but his 'work', at least. What work that is, well, it's a good question.", she bobs her head. Ooh, Postmodern. That's a nice word. Ancient Wisdom, well... "So postmodern views on ancient wisdom? That wouldn't make it very Ancient anymore, would it?', she chuckles.
"Mm? I thought you said he was a caretaker here?" Ellen inquires, then grins at the succeeding remark, "Well, as the Eastern philosophers would say, time is an illusion, anyway. So, I suppose 'ancient' is what we make of it." She chuckles a little, too. "After all, we can known the ancients' views only through our own perspective, only from the vantage point that we have now. And the frame of reference changes what is perceived," she says seriously.
Megumi says, "He is, I mean his other...well, hm.", she leans back musing over that whole 'time' thing. She knows there was a definite beginning. Then again, does she? She isn't that old, after all. "Hmm...Mmm...Hmmmm...", she stands up! "Exactly right! The past is the past and what matters is the now. We'll never completely understand how the past saw their personal present, if even they really understood their present, and judging from some of the literature, I would imagine that is not the case."
"His other job?" Ellen completes, but then her attention too is derailed by the 'time' question. "I imagine the only way we could /truly/ know would be through time travel technology, or cross-time telepathy -- either of which may be invented at some point in the future," she says with perfect seriousness. "Yet, even so, to introduce an observer into the system will alter it. We cannot know what the past would have been without our observation, any more than we can hear a tree that falls in the forest when we are not there." She smiles quaintly again, eyes brightening at the entertaining thoughts. "But," she adds, "can we truly say that we understand our present better than the ancient did theirs? Perhaps we do, in some ways. Yet, can anyone ever understand their own present absolutely? The moment you understand part of it, it is already in the past. A paradox, is it not?"
Megumi says, "Unless the observer can observe without altering it, otherwise it wouldn't be so much as an observe rso much as an alterator that happens to observe as well. Presumably, if one could invent technology to travel through time, one could also invent technology to keep their 'machine' from being noticed. Stealth technology, the cloaking you see on that Star Trek show. Of course, perhaps even being present alone would change the weather drastically according to Chaos Theory, but I am not a practicioner of that. All I know is that if one can bend the laws of time enough to move through it, they would likely have other technology to assist in making such a point too. As for understanding the present absolutely, well, I like to think my memory isn't as fallible to forget one thing in an instant. All the same, what you think of as 'ancient' isn't all that far from our current understanding as we see it. Humans still are concious of only using a tiny part of their brain, though they use far more in unconcious effort. If humans learned to comprehend and control every part of their mind, then I wouldn't think it impossible since you would be concious of the entire experience the moment it hit you, something we can't say happens in the present now."
"But the observer would still be present -- their consciousness would be present," Ellen responds. "And their consciousness would, at the least, alter what is perceived; and, if certain theories of physics can be generalized to overall experience, the system itself may also be altered. It is the same thing as the tree falling in the forest. If /you/ are there, can you truly say it is the same as if you are not there?" Well, maybe Megumi can. She then listens to Megumi's words, and smiles. "I do agree that human consciousness can become much more than it currently is," she nods enthusiastically. "Certainly, we could expand our present awareness to include much more than it now holds. Yet, I think the paradox would still apply -- the moment you /remember/ something, it is not the present but the past." She tilts her head thoughtfully. "Then again, in Eastern meditation one also learns to center oneself in the Now. Perhaps that is what you are thinking of?"
Megumi says, "Not if it's a robot. And by a robot, I mean one with only the mental capacity to record, nothing more. We already have -that- technology.", her lips spread into a smile, "It's a lot easier to make an unbiased thing than a biased one.", unfortunately, Megumi has met some of them, "But...mm...", she doesn't answer Ellen's thoughts on the past immediately. No, she thinks about it...or at least makes an act of thinking about it...for several moments.
"But Time is an illusion, is it not? If you can see through that illusion to travel through time, or at least realize you aren't remembering but rather...well, I would need a complete conciousness to say what, but with a full conciousness you would..mm...Not need to remember, so much as always be thinking. Of everything. And you aren't really looking back at all, just concentrating on the same thoughts you have, or rather has, had.", she leans forward and watches Ellen thoughtfully, "Hm...how far would you say human conciousness could go? Could it be 'complete'?"
"Yet even a robot is programmed by someone," Ellen smiles. "And the moment someone /observes/ the recordings, consciousness will enter into the picture again." She tilts her head as she listens to Megumi. "Mmmm.... yes. Transcendence of time... that would be a completely new level of consciousness. Some of the Eastern writings speak of it. But such a state would be neither 'thinking' nor 'remembering', as we currently understand such." Her eyes brighten, and she gazes off as if at an invisible horizon. "Perhaps /that/ is what is needed to make the Quantum Leap, rather than merely speed up our present cognitive processes to operate faster and faster, like some writers assume." With a quick, impulsive movement, she pulls out her pen and scribbles rapidly. Her eyes lift to meet Megumi's. "How far?...." Her gaze grows more distant. "I suspect, by the time we reach the point of such a change, we will grow beyond all that we can now measure. Perhaps we will outgrow measurement itself."
Megumi shrugs, "Of course someone programs it, but the programming would be neutral because all it would be programmed to do would be 'record'. There would be no bias. I suppose once the viewer gets involved that may be the problem, unless the viewers were other observational robots. hmm...", such big words Ellen uses, Megumi reflects, perhaps that's why humans have trouble cooperating. They make all the important stuff hard to understand. "I haven't actually read many time travel novels." Megumi reflects aloud, "I probably should, like Dracula. I read Dracula for the first time here. Still-...it's wonderful to hear about so much potential from you, Miss...Ahh, how rude of me, totally forgot.", she offers her hand, "Megumi Goodfellow, you?"
"Ellen Lane," Ellen smiles, taking Megumi's hand to shake it. "I am pleased to meet you, Megumi." Her smile brightens, "If you like, I can recommend some of the best current science fiction novels. And I thank you for the inspiration. You have given me some ideas, I believe." Well, isn't that what Balseraphs are for?
Megumi smiles, "I love most Fiction.", she says softly, "So I would appreciate that. I'm glad to have been of some help though, even though I haven't finished College yet.", she shakes the hand before pulling it back and standing, "All the same I should be going...Is there a way I can get ahold of you?"
"Ah, new ideas can always help, no matter how much formal education a person has," Ellen smiles warmly. She hesitates a moment at the request for contact information, however. "Oh.. I am sure that we will meet from time to time, if you visit the library and campus a lot. I will be coming here often to do research. If you really need to reach me, you can send me email." She scribbles down an address; it's Hotmail. Now, she wouldn't be paranoid about letting people know where she lives, would she?
Megumi snags it and stuffs it in a pocket without looking at it. "Thank you.", she says with a smile, "I'll send you an e-mail in a week or so, I suppose. Have a good day.", and with that she slinks out without another word. On her way...to somewhere else.
"Good day, Megumi," Ellen replies, and goes back to her reading. Before long she is again lost in the obsessive pursuit of knowledge.
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